Jenn (00:53)
Hi, Jordan. Welcome. Thanks for being here with me.
Jordan (00:57)
Hey Jen, thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited to be here and to talk through all of the good stuff.
Jenn (01:06)
Absolutely, me too. I'll introduce you to our audience and then kind of hand it over to you to lead us through some mindfulness and then we can dive into conversation. so just to give you all a little frame on the work that Jordan is doing, and we'll we'll get to explore it over the next hour or so, but
Jenn (01:27)
Dr. Jordan Ashley founded Souljourn Yoga Foundation in 2016 to create transformational yoga retreats and teacher training programs that raise funds for young women's education worldwide. She holds a PhD in sociology and a master's in human rights. Her research focuses on embodied and somatic methodologies in feminist and decolonial contexts with extensive fieldwork among adolescent girls in Morocco.
Jenn (01:56)
An activist, writer, TEDx speaker, and yoga educator with over 15 years of teaching experience. She has been featured in Forbes, Mary Claire, UK, Yoga Journal, and more. So thanks for being here. That's an awesome bio to kick us off. I'm so excited to dive into this conversation. But if you wanted to share a mindfulness practice, maybe one that either is as you've done in your work or that resonates with you in this moment, that would be lovely.
Jordan (02:26)
Yeah, absolutely. So let's begin. Just bring a hand to your heart and a hand to your belly. And you can close your eyes or just gently soften your gaze. And just taking a couple of moments just to connect with your inner world. And then notice what's happening in your outer world.
Jordan (02:54)
And it's through this idea of bringing together our breath and our body and our mind that we begin to cultivate this idea of yoga or union, so merging the two worlds together. And let's just begin by taking an inhale, filling the belly, the ribs, the heart, the crown, and hold and fill up.
Jordan (03:21)
And then take a huge exhale out the mouth, and you can sigh and let something go. Okay, two more times, breathing in. Belly, ribs, heart, crown, and hold. And zip in a little bit more air. Good fill up. Big audible exhale.
Jordan (03:49)
Great. One more time. Inhale. Belly, ribs, heart, and crown. In sip in a little bit of air and a little bit more. Good. Keep going and going. Fill, fill, fill. Biggest exhale yet. Release.
Jordan (04:10)
And then you can allow both of your hands to cup over the front of your heart space. And just feeling held and supported by your own two hands. Let's take a full inhale and a big exhale.
Jordan (04:28)
When you're ready, you can open up your eyes and take in the room or the space that you're in.
Jordan (04:38)
Ready, just returning back to the moment.
Jenn (04:44)
Thank you so much. I'm always amazed at how, you know, how often I might do a practice like that and still how impactful it is every time. It's like, ooh, I really needed that this morning.
Jordan (04:57)
Yeah, I know I feel like every time it's so different, especially like where you are, like what context you're in. And it's something that I always, well always, but I'll say more likely than not, I'll like begin a yoga class with that, you know, just in terms of coming together and just, you know, feeling, you know, that tactile connection of like hands to body. And just like what power, you know, that has.
Jenn (05:18)
Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, thank you for that. That was lovely. so, you know, there's a lot of different places we could start. I know that a lot of your work centers around young women and adolescent girls and you know, has so so many of these really meaningful, at least in in terms of my scope to to me, meaningful layers. But I'm sort of wondering.
Jenn (05:45)
how you got into this work and if you might share that a little bit with us to kind of kick off the conversation.
Jordan (05:51)
Yeah, no, absolutely. So I I grew up in LA in the nineties and the two thousands. And I think, you know, growing up in LA, which is, you know, such a diverse and interesting and vast place, yoga and wellness culture ha has always, you know, been at the forefront. And so I was introduced to yoga via my mom at a really young age and used to go and take class with her. And
Jordan (06:16)
Throughout like middle school and then high school, I would then have my own practice as well. And it actually started off, especially in middle school, when I felt so awkward and so disconnected and really, you know, struggled in terms of, you know.
Jordan (06:31)
having a sense of self, which I feel like a lot of adolescents, especially adolescent, you know, girls experience. And I actually got out of PE. I got a I got to do independent study. So my mom would sign off that I went to yoga class. But it really wasn't until I moved to New York and I was going to the new school that I you know found that my practice really supported me, especially like being in a new city. And it was also during
Jordan (06:59)
that time that I had two really amazing study abroad programs. one was in Cambodia in CMRAP, and the other one was in Dharmasal in India. And I had never traveled like that before. I had never had that kind of immersive experience, especially in a place like Cambodia, and living amongst you know survivors from the Khmer Rouge and learning about the history and also, you know, how does a community that has had so much.
Jordan (07:27)
displacement and you know violence both internally you know even amongst you know families then externally as well like how does that how do you move forward you know as as a nation and it was during that period of time I also had the opportunity to volunteer at an amazing organization called the Ponharry Lee Foundation. Ponharry is amazing she's a CNN hero. She started
Jordan (07:52)
An organization because her father was murdered by the Khmer Rouge and she's a survivor as well. And so I think having that firsthand experience in terms of being able to see how someone rewrote the narrative and then rewrote her story and her narrative and then ended up creating this beautiful ripple effect in terms of now providing education to, you know, thousands and thousands of kids within CM Rovince was just absolutely mind-blowing.
Jordan (08:22)
And so that was the beginning in terms of, you know, going somewhere, seeing impact, but then also realizing as well, and I know we'll get into this, that it's really about, you know, I think as an outsider or being from the global north, it's also about taking a step back and listening.
Jenn (08:44)
Yeah, no, I think that's it's what a a powerful, like impressionable time too to like to to have that experience. And yeah, I know that we've talked a lot about how you and I or at least have had the chance to start talking about what it looks like to go into these environments and hold privilege positionality, sometimes hold the identity of in in some ways of an oppressor. And what does that look like to
Jenn (09:13)
Come in with cultural curiosity. you know, I hear so much in my work around, you know, what does it look like to not be a white savior? I think there's a lot of lip service to that. I don't know if that's always put into practice. And so I I am curious to kind of know more about, you know, that what that looks like in practice for you.
Jordan (09:38)
I think it's a lot about our own positionality, or rather my own positionality and the reflexivity as well in terms of having to do the self-work. And there's a lot of care and consideration that goes into even how we document and show our different programming. I know that different organizations have different child protective policies. So it's always making sure, like since we're working with minors for the most part, that we're adhering to those policies and that, you know, we are once again taking a backseat.
Jordan (10:07)
And being there to listen and to learn instead of to dictate and to lead. And I think that's a really important differentiation to make between going in and wanting to lead programs or create programming versus going in some or rather being invited in somewhere, right? There's a difference there. being embraced and then also having to also throw a lot of your game plan out the window because you realize that in that said moment, like it just doesn't work.
Jordan (10:36)
it might have, you know, sounded good on paper, but in actuality when you're actually there, you know, doing the work within the different communities, it might be something that is very surprising. And so I think, you know, you also have to be willing to, you know, swaha, like surrender to the sacred fire and like move on and not be hung up on on your ego in terms of the wanting or the needing to do it, but more of the humility that goes into being able to share space.
Jenn (11:07)
Yeah, I really resonate with that. I'm thinking about some upcoming projects that I have on my side where we're starting to do just different proposals with Afghani you know, communities, both in Afghanistan and in the United States, that have had forced migration here. And I think that it's sometimes so hard to lay out a protocol or a plan of what it's going to look like when you know that you're gonna throw away some of it or have to change it.
Jenn (11:36)
because you're gonna create it in collaboration as you build community. So I always think that's interesting, particularly in the vein of research. Like what does research look like when you're gonna have to pivot to be to show up in a humanistic way?
Jordan (11:52)
Yeah, so when I went in to do my doctoral research, so working in a boarding house for girls between 12 and 18, I was working with a cohort of young women between 15 and 16. And I had some idea in terms of, you know, what I wanted my thesis to be about and what I wanted the research to entail. But to be honest with you, you know, we talk about in academia, you know, the theoretical underpinnings or like what literature, you know, we're gonna draw on to really, you know, frame our
Jordan (12:21)
In our research. And I had a really hard time in terms of, you know, what researcher or scholar or kind of you know thought process or methodology did I really want to connect with? And it took a long time. I remember doing so much reading and so much, you know, research. And it wasn't until maybe, I don't know, two and a half years in that I was like girlhood studies. Girlhood studies is what resonates most with me.
Jordan (12:51)
I think that there's a lot of you know different ways that our work can go about. I was really, you know, mindful to as you said, to be to have you know a decolonial context when doing this and making sure that I was always, you know, coming from a place as learning with instead of teaching to.
Jordan (13:13)
And as well, you know, different concepts as well, like and you know, not to get super nerdy, but like, you feminist new materialism and this idea of place world, which is by this incredible scholar named Tara Page, and it's all about the world that we co-create together. So the different animate and inanimate beings that work together in a space. And I think in particular, I witnessed that in the dorm. So be it, you know, the young woman, you know, or the girls like carving out, you know, spaces within spaces.
Jordan (13:42)
You know, a lot of research is from the global north that does cover adolescent girls and it's often about, you know, the bedroom and what the bedroom entails. But what we don't really look at is, well, that's not applicable to, you know, to a teenage girl who has been chosen for higher education and is now in a temporal space, and she's in a boarding house and she's in a room with maybe, you know, five other girls. Like what does that look like? You can't necessarily put posters up or
Jordan (14:09)
you know, have your stuff everywhere. but how do you still find this idea of of rest, you know, even when you are in a private slash like public setting?
Jenn (14:24)
That's great. And I wonder if we can even just to kind of make sure that we're we're sharing some of the terminology that you're using, can you say more about place world and just go into that a little bit more?
Jordan (14:35)
Yeah, so Placeworld is I I love it. It's this idea that you are co-creating a a place with someone, with some things. So it's also bringing in the the elements as well, or the inorganic, the organic and the inorganic compositions as well. So for instance, that could be the plants. I write about the animals, you know, animals did take did take up a lot of space.
Jordan (15:03)
an example of that would be the what I call like the space in between or the liminal space, which was the garden. And so, you know, we're in Morocco, we're in the mountains, and you know, there was a mom cat with, you know, three kittens, and something that happened was I started to feed the kittens. I'm huge animal person. And Erin Maining, who is a dance and movement scholar, she talks about this concept called the minor gesture. So instead of
Jordan (15:31)
I think in yoga we would maybe think of it like as a sequence, right? But it's not a sequence, right? This isn't something that I've orchestrated or choreographed before. The minor gesture is almost like the domino effect that happens when when a choice is made. So for instance,
Jenn (15:48)
Mm.
Jordan (15:48)
with me feeding the kittens, I never had a conversation with with the girls about it, but they then lunch the following day, then you know, gathered up all their leftovers and took them, you know, to the
Jordan (16:00)
to the patio and then started scraping and feeding the kittens as well. We never had dialogue about it, but it was j just through this experience of being together that then, you know, the minor gesture occurs in our place world. So the co-created environment of the garden.
Jenn (16:16)
that makes so much sense. I think that it would be a a thing to kind of gather around or be a part of or be in community together. I'm curious though, if you might share a little bit more about the work that you did in Morocco, just to give a context to our our listeners.
Jordan (16:36)
Yeah, absolutely. I also realized I didn't mention what soldier what soldier yoga is. but
Jenn (16:41)
Yeah.
Jordan (16:42)
or a little bit, but just I guess to give context to that is so we're 501c3, as you'd mentioned, and our goal is to support girls' education globally, and we do that through retreats. So our retreats act as fundraising vehicles. So we always include a direct donation to our partner organizations on the ground, and then the people who come on our retreat
Jordan (17:05)
It's a way to change the donor-recipient relationship. So it's more of a mutual exchange instead of it being transactional. And then the people who join our retreats, we have an opportunity to actually connect with the nonprofit and to learn all about them and to see firsthand, you know, where their donation is going. So the organization in Morocco that we work with, it was one that we'd been supporting via our retreats. And so I was invited in to do the teacher training with the cohort of baccalaureate students.
Jordan (17:34)
And so that research was 2022 to 2024. But also I think it's important to mention that in September 2023, the girls were displaced because of the earthquake and they were very much at the epicenter of it. And so something
Jenn (17:51)
Mm-hmm.
Jordan (17:52)
as well that I write about and talk about is you know, my positionality as a researcher then also shifted to them being a tracker and tracer because I had you know contact with the girls.
Jordan (18:03)
via WhatsApp and Facebook. So it wasn't just me even trying to find the girls in the yoga program that then expanded to then, you know, trying to find two hundred who were at, you know, the different dorms within the region.
Jenn (18:19)
Right, right. And so in that work in Morocco, that can you say more about so then how that evolved and then so you mentioned like the donor relationship, like can you paint a picture of that for us as well? Like you're partnering with the
Jordan (18:35)
Yeah,
Jenn (18:36)
organization or how yeah, how does that all work?
Jordan (18:39)
so Soldier and Yoga Foundation always partners with a different organization whenever we go on a retreat, and that's through a lot of due diligence on my end and making sure that they're a good fit and vice versa. We're a good fit for them and they're a good fit for us. I think so often, you know, you will hear about causes and
Jordan (18:58)
there might be some skepticism about, you know, actually if I write a check, like, you know, I don't even know if people do checks anymore, but if I send money or payment, you know, where is this actually going? How who is this supporting? Who is this helping? What is this buying? And so I think being really transparent and saying like your $200 is going towards a scholarship. It's going towards helping to rebuild a new dorm. It's going to food. It's going to after school care. it's going to transportation.
Jordan (19:26)
So I think being really clear from the get-go of saying like this is where your money is going and building it into the retreat cost, it becomes a no-brainer because you're not having to, you know, actively have additional fundraising. So
Jenn (19:38)
Mm-hmm.
Jordan (19:39)
then on our retreats, we have at least one meeting, if not more, with the partner organization on the ground. And that could be doing a yoga class together, it could be making lunch together or doing an art project as well. And that's a really great way to build community because
Jordan (19:56)
Under I can't really imagine any other circumstance, would you had you not traveled with us and gone our gone on our retreat, would you have then, you know, met this incredible organization and had you know insider knowledge and firsthand experience about you know all of the work that they're doing. So in that way, Soldier and operates as an intermediary organization. But I realized pretty quickly, and so in that regard, we're changing the donor-recipient relationship.
Jordan (20:25)
But I realized pretty quickly that it felt a little bit unfair to only, you know, only offer yoga to you know the girls or the young women that we're supporting like one time a year. And I was then, I came up with this idea through the organization we work with in Rwanda, to do our own teacher training program so that the knowledge can be disseminated and shared, agency can be enacted.
Jordan (20:50)
No one is waiting for me to come in and to and to teach or for there to be a retreat. To me, it's all about creating independence and making it culturally contextual as well to whatever community that you're working with. And so doing the work in Rwanda first with an older group of women, so women between 23 and 37, and then going back and leading a really, really, really special workshop
Jordan (21:19)
With this amazing organization called Savota, which provides relief and also economical empowerment for widows and orphans from the 1994 Reborn and Genocide Against the Tootsies. that was to me a very much a once-in-a-lifetime experience in terms
Jenn (21:38)
Mm.
Jordan (21:39)
of the trust that went into it and the care and just feeling so humbled that
Jordan (21:47)
to be to be invited in to that community.
Jenn (21:50)
So you would sort of go in and lead a retreat and then from that retreat then come go back and do a sort of like a deeper dive into a teacher training. Is that sort of the the general format or the way that you like to work?
Jordan (22:07)
Yeah, if the if the nonprofit is open to it and it's something that they think that, you know, their community would benefit from and also use and utilize, you know, it's really about taking following their lead, you know, with it, instead of, you know, me coming in saying, I think you should do this or I think you should do that. And so the work in Rwanda was broken down into a week. So it's not a 200-hour teacher training. I think for so many people around the world.
Jordan (22:35)
As amazing as a 200-hour teacher training is, I mean, I did it, I did 300, I did additional, you know, it's it's not accessible and it's not possible. And so, you know, how do we or how does how do I then, you know, share the knowledge so that it can be broken down into digestible bites, but then so that it can be led when I'm not present and then it can be changed and adapted and really made to fit.
Jordan (23:03)
whichever organization that is has decided to you know bring yoga into their into their community.
Jenn (23:11)
Right, right. I so resonate with that. I mean the 200 hour teacher training really is the sort of like a construct that has been created around, you know, a lot even in just in the US and like the ways that it's been standardized here. I think I totally resonate with that too, of just meeting the needs of the community that you're with. And also empowering them with knowledge, right? So and and then allowing it to change and adapt and
Jenn (23:40)
grow based on the context that it's in. I think knowledge hoarding or knowledge like gate or gatekeeping of knowledge and information
Jordan (23:48)
Mm-hmm.
Jenn (23:49)
is something that can be pretty sneaky but pervasive in this kind of exchange. so I love the way that you describe that the work that you do. I guess I'm curious about
Jenn (24:08)
you know, what it's like for you just as a you know, a person doing this work, what it what it means to you, what kind of what you receive from the work. So much I think of why we do this work has to do with our own passion, our own desire to have impact in the world. and I think I I just love to hear your your sense on that or what it what it
Jenn (24:36)
has meant to you to be able to do this work.
Jordan (24:41)
So something that I've mentioned in the past, and we've discussed it a little bit before as well is, you know, I'm I'm a survivor of violence. I've had several instances throughout and experiences throughout my life that make me resonate with with that label. In particular, I was in a very abusive relationship from 21 to 22, and it took me two times to leave. But the second time I got out and and then stayed out. And I know that.
Jordan (25:11)
You know, for so many of the women that I've worked with and have met over the years, education really is a lifeline. And I think from having my own experience, without having that I'll say kind of shadow and color.
Jordan (25:28)
the work that I do because I also think that's important as well. Like it's not about my story or my experiences. It's really about letting the individuals who are engaging with and collaborating with, I love that you use that word. It's really about letting them have their own experience, which is why I don't necessarily always like lead with my own narrative and my own story. But I think had I not had those experiences, I don't necessarily think I would be on this journey.
Jenn (25:58)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Jordan (25:59)
And I think often of that quote, and I'm totally going to jumble it, but from Sylvia Plath from The Belljar, and she talks about the fig tree and seeing all of the different iterations her life could be on the different figs. And you know, sometimes in life we have control, but more often than not, we don't. And so for me, having access to education, having it literally be handed to me.
Jordan (26:27)
And knowing that that education would then support me for the rest of my life, I think is something that so often we take for granted, especially if we live in the global north, in the US or the United Kingdom or or in Europe or elsewhere, where you know education isn't something we have to second have to second guess. And so by supporting girls' education and young women's empowerment, by really being an activist and an advocate, so that
Jordan (26:57)
more, you know, young women do have access to education. It is something that they have not only for themselves, but also the pride that comes with it in terms of the trickle-down effect to upward mobility that it has on their families and their communities. And that's something that I witnessed, you know, in in Morocco as well. it's not something to be taken lightly. You know, it's it's something that has education is something that can never be taken away from you. And it has a lot of power behind it.
Jenn (27:25)
There's so much in there. And I just want to also acknowledge and thank you for sharing your story. I know you and I spoke a little bit about that dance as well, around, you know, which I've struggled with too, about like, should I share my story? How much is that going to then take the oxygen out of the room and or somehow center me versus the work that I want to support in the world? And
Jenn (27:55)
To me, it's it's it's I think it's powerful to name it because so many of us come to this work because we've had experiences. And through the years, I don't know if you've bumped into this, I've trained a a number of people who have said, Is it okay for me to do this work because I have a history? Is it is it like are the lines gonna get crossed? And so often I think the what drives us to continue.
Jenn (28:24)
To move forward and push projects, projects forward and organizations like you've founded forward is our own history, is that impact that we've felt. And it sounds in my mind like you do a beautiful job of then also separating, of course, like, you know, the people you serve are going to have their own experiences, but in in terms of success with it, the impact of education on their lives or potentially even their ability to individuate or separate from abusive dynamics.
Jenn (28:54)
sort of irrelevant in a way. It's just that process of giving this opportunity for agency and for empowerment.
Jordan (29:07)
Absolutely. And I think, you know, to the point as well, when you think about trauma informed whether or not or trauma, whether or not someone wants to absorb that label or that identity, whatever it means to them, you know, if I were to go to a yoga class, no one would necessarily, you know, look at me and say, like, you know, this person has experienced, you know, trauma. and so I also think as well, when in this space,
Jordan (29:36)
Really being mindful of avoiding like damage-centered research. So just because someone is from a particular corner of the world and exists within a certain socioeconomic demographic does not necessarily mean that they identify with being traumatized.
Jenn (29:54)
Hell yes. I think there's so much of that that can also happen. So can you say more about damage centered research? Because I think that's a fascinating thing and then differentiate kind of that's maybe the work that you do.
Jordan (30:05)
So that's coined by Eve Tack, who does absolutely amazing work, particularly amongst like indigenous communities. And it's this idea if you're going in to do research or you know, let's just say even like a yoga training, that I don't have a a preconceived like notion or idea of the people who I'm working with, whatever their lived experiences is, despite historical context or historical environmental
Jordan (30:34)
Or as I said, like socioeconomic, you know, as well. So it's really giving space and letting there be breathing room to let to let the research be done in collaboration with. So I always say it's like it's done, you know, with or we withness, not to witness, but it's withness. which I think is so important because I think very easily we can get into rhetoric around.
Jordan (31:01)
you know, white saviorship or about helping or about aiding. And I don't think that necessarily is the way to go about doing things, especially not not now. I think, you know, this work like, you know, our mission statements changed a lot over the years as well. I think we also have to be mal malleable and, you know, go with the times. And so words that I might have used in two thousand and sixteen like aren't apropos in in twenty twenty six.
Jordan (31:28)
And so I think that comes back to you know the work with Morocco and working with the Almazir girls. so that's an indigenous population in North Africa and Amazir translates to free people. You might save
Jenn (31:41)
Mm.
Jordan (31:42)
known you might know the word Berber, but Berber's not you know PC. And so the chosen word is is Amazir is a way to self-identify. And you know, just even from that description, indigenous and marginalized, I could have a whole
Jordan (31:57)
grocery list of all of the things and assumptions that I am going to equate. But it's but to me, I really tried my best to be be open and to be, I'll say like surprised in terms of what was presented to me in in any given moment.
Jenn (32:15)
Mm. Right. So not coming into this sense of, you know, these individuals have experienced all these things. So this must mean X, Y, or Z, or this must be the impact, or anticipating that, rather coming in with a curiosity of their experience of the things that they've lived through. Is that somewhat right? Or is that somewhat in the ballpark?
Jordan (32:36)
Exactly. Yeah.
Jordan (32:37)
No, no, yeah. Yeah, you got it. Yeah.
Jenn (32:39)
Yeah. Yeah,
Jordan (32:41)
I think oftentimes like that's easier said than done. but I think it really is a practice that you know that it takes a lot of work in terms of I don't wanna say going in blind, but to some but to some extent it's about turning off assumptions that you might have. It's not to say that you're going to throw your training
Jordan (33:00)
and cultural sensitivity like out the door, but I also think it's giving room to let people be people.
Jenn (33:07)
Yes, I love this. I think, you know, one of the things that I like to sit with is like what's it like to bring a an honest, not a performative, beginner's mindset to when you meet when I meet with a client, for example. Like there are spaces where someone could say, like Jen is a trauma expert. And to me I find the language of expert so unhelpful for me to carry, to be labeled with.
Jenn (33:33)
Because the reality is, is that I genuinely don't know what the impact has been, how you understand it, client, whomever, person, whoever, who I'm working with, the experiences you've had. You may not even call them trauma. They may you may not experience them in your body as trauma, or the things that you do experience as traumatic and overwhelming in your body may surprise me than what I might have a preconception around.
Jenn (34:04)
it's interesting to try to balance okay, this is what I know. I do have I'm continuing to learn and grow and acquire more knowledge, and I'm not an expert in your experience, I'm not an expert in in what it's like to live in your world and your body.
Jordan (34:21)
Exactly. And I think on the other side of that as well, it's about also, as I said, like letting people be people and being, you know, p surprised by by what happens. And so an example of this is that, you know, through the work in Morocco, so the work in Morocco was a teacher training program for for teen girls for them to be able to use yoga not only for livelihood when they're at university, but also as a way for
Jordan (34:49)
relief and to to de-stress because it's very academically rigorous. They're the first women in their family, to have access to higher education at this level. And so they experience a lot of burnout and anxiety and depression, especially around exam periods, because it holds so much weight. And so how I wanted to start this project was to first introduce them to
Jordan (35:11)
practice of yoga before they actually, you know, start to teach it. And we started off by doing Zoom. And so I was really mindful for like our first session. I, you know, cleared my apartment. I like made the yoga space like look really nice. I had like the salt lamp out. I like, you know, tried to make it look as yoga studio as possible. And I have dogs at the time I have a dock said named Pickle. And I was very mindful to like
Jordan (35:37)
put pickle in the other room and make sure pickle's like out of sight. I wasn't sure what the girls' relationships with with animals or what dogs was going to be. oftentimes, you know, it's just a different kind of relationship with animals. and so I was mindful that maybe they would consider pickle to be haram or like unclean and just like let me, let me make sure that pickle's off the premises. so I was nervous. It was the first time I was doing, you know, this the Zoom yoga class. I wasn't sure how many girls and we start and
Jordan (36:06)
My partner wasn't home and then I hear pickle start to cry. And so I'm now divided. I'm like, do I keep going or do I ignore pickle? Like, what do I do? I can't, I'm like, I don't know what to do. So I'm like, okay. I'm like, let me just open the door and maybe she'll be good. Was pickle good? No, of course not. Pickle immediately
Jenn (36:24)
Yeah.
Jordan (36:25)
was on the yoga mat, started licking my face, and I was mortified. I'm like, these girls are gonna think I am the worst. And they started giggling.
Jordan (36:35)
And saying, my goodness, what's her name? What's her name? She's so cute. She's so sweet. Like they were my goodness. And they kept saying pickle, pickle. And then I just kind of laughed at myself. I'm like, okay, you you stressed out. You were so concerned about being offensive, about you know, having a really bad first impression. And
Jenn (36:54)
Mm.
Jordan (36:54)
then pickle was great. I mean, was she did is she is she someone who I want to practice yoga with? No, not necessarily, but in that context, when I had to, you know.
Jordan (37:05)
get through, you know, a 45 minute intro session. It was fine and it worked. And it ended up being a really humanizing experience. Once again, all my cultural sensitivity, it's not to say not to be cultural sensitive, sensitive
Jenn (37:19)
Yes.
Jordan (37:20)
in these spaces, but it's also to say you might have one idea about how something's gonna go and it goes completely the opposite direction. And so I think, yeah, the example of pickle is is maybe such as yeah.
Jenn (37:34)
First of all, I
Jordan (37:34)
Mm-hmm.
Jenn (37:35)
love we're getting another a second dog in my home. And so I'm starting to think of names. Pickle is genius. I love it. It's so cute.
Jordan (37:42)
You have my blessing.
Jordan (37:43)
Please take pickle. I often hear pickles. It's I feel like it's very rare to hear singular pickle, but please by all means take pickle.
Jenn (37:50)
I love it. I met a toast the other day and it was it was also a
Jordan (37:53)
that's a
Jenn (37:53)
dachshund. It was like a blue she blew my mind. I was like toast. Okay, sidebar there. But like I love what what I also pull from what you just said is a a piece about perfectionism or or like getting it right. You know, this idea of like going into a place and wanting to you know, cut it coming from a place of of really deep intention and care.
Jenn (38:17)
And that sometimes we can get so caught up in doing it right or or not harming that we can either end up harming more or we miss the opportunity for genuine connection. And to me, what at least f in my experience, when I've led with like I'm gonna get it just right, that's been also maybe a fear for myself around like I don't want to mess it up and then have to like do the the repair. And if there's anything that I've learned in all of my years of doing trauma-sensitive work, it's like
Jenn (38:47)
The repair is everything, you know, because it it is the moment that I show up and try to a be in a a place of perfectionism for I lose me in some of that.
Jenn (39:04)
You know, as soon as we can invite in like, how was this for you? Like, I'm so sorry about Pip Gol coming in, like, how did that land? You know, when we can have those kind of dialogues, then we open up real collaboration rather than like, I got it I got it right and now I did it right and this feels comfortable for you. it's a negotiation, it's a back and forth. What is trauma sensitive for one person is usually quite different for another, even within one, you know, s group of five people.
Jenn (39:33)
So I love that experience where you were sort of forced to let go of, you know, the the idea of getting it right,
Jordan (39:45)
To me that's what so much of this work is. It's about you know
Jordan (39:50)
you'll of course you're gonna try your best to make it as succinct and as polished and as possible. But then also too it's about acknowledging like we're all human and we're all doing the best that we can under you know the given circumstances in which we exist on in any given moment. And to have the same level of compassion as I would from someone else to me is probably like the biggest lesson in terms of really just saying like it's okay and that, you know, it's you know, you're doing your best. I think that's something that,
Jordan (40:20)
I probably struggle with, you know, quite a bit in all transparency. but then it's also about these, you know, moments of connectivity. And so then
Jordan (40:31)
it's through the flaws or the imperfections that then I think we have the most profound and deepest, you know, moments of one another. because someone sees you, you know, at your maybe not your most vulnerable, but someone sees your vulnerability.
Jenn (40:47)
Exactly. Exactly. And that's and that to me is a practice in and of itself of like, what is it like to share that vulnerability and still do it in a way that feels safe to each one of us individually. I wanna circle back too to something you said around, you know, the the the power of education and how no one can take that away from you. It's like you can't unlearn something you've learned or you can't like
Jenn (41:14)
Close your mind if it's been opened or you've, you know, expanded.
Jordan (41:16)
Mm-hmm.
Jenn (41:17)
To me, that also where my mind went was like, it's just like the body. We carry around this body all the time that we can either have an adversarial relationship with, a numb relationship with, any range of things, or it's this potential resource to us that no one can take away from us. Like we still have to inhabit our body. We have our breath, we have our heartbeat. And
Jenn (41:41)
when there's opportunity to really claim that relationship, it's so pa it it's potentially so powerful. so I love that parallel.
Jordan (41:54)
no, I think, you know, for me it's always been f I'll say like first through the body or embodiment in terms of how I'm then you know, the body is how I then connect to my breath and my mind to then, you know, create emb embodiment. So I I love, you know, the the idea and I I think I mentioned this at the beginning, like your internal world and your external world like meet and it's in that bridge and in it's that, you know, connectivity in which we experience embodiment. And so that's why I think
Jordan (42:20)
using yoga and you know, a yoga teacher training or even a yoga camp, which is something we just wrapped last month in in Los Angeles with a cohort of girls from 16 to 23, which was amazing. It was the first time we did a yoga camp in which they were just there to be, you know, participants as as opposed to learn, although I did teach them box breathing, which was great. And now they can all, you know, teach box breathing, is that
Jordan (42:49)
You really don't need a lot of space to do yoga, you know, you don't even necessarily like need a mat. It's so portable and you can really take it anywhere with you. And so I think, you know, as well, it's something that can be malleable. And I think, you know, there is something for everyone, I think, in in the grand scheme of of yoga within that world, be it meditation. I know that's something that
Jordan (43:15)
a lot of the women in Rwanda, especially the older women, really gravitated towards was first and foremost like
Jenn (43:19)
We
Jordan (43:20)
building a meditation practice. I know for some of the girls in in Morocco, they really, you know, loved rest. That was really important to them is, you know, to to to feel all of the energy that they'd culminated and then just to be without worrying about exams or familial pressures or or school pressures as well.
Jordan (43:43)
And then with Yoga Camp as well, that was with as I said, it was a group of young women who are from Watson Compton. And so we also paired them with wellness practitioners and mentors as well, because I think it's so important as well to have individuals who are to bring in different modalities into
Jenn (44:03)
Mm-hmm.
Jordan (44:04)
the space for them to be exposed to and to learn and to learn with.
Jordan (44:07)
And so having a collective of amazing, amazing, you know, BIPOC women was was essential for that project. and that was a great opportunity for me to just once again like stand back. I'm I'm always, always, always trying to stand back and not be, you know, and not be in the camera. yeah.
Jenn (44:27)
Right. And that's that like decentering yourself and still leading, you know, that that balance there too, right?
Jordan (44:30)
Exactly. Yeah.
Jenn (44:35)
Yeah, I love I mean, I love hearing about the yoga camp too. I know that's a recent, very recent project. And so in that it sounds like young women were receiving rather than like then I'm gonna go out into the world and offer do an offering.
Jenn (44:49)
Is there follow up after a camp like that or is there
Jordan (44:51)
Mm-hmm.
Jenn (44:52)
a continued relationship? What does that look like?
Jordan (44:55)
So that was five days, and every day we had different, and it's all based on the research that was done in in Morocco as well. So I did weave in some of the same exercises. Like for example, one that we do is called Meditation Minds. And so you color what your mind looks like before meditation and then after meditation. and so we do do virtual check-ins. and then we're also going to be doing a winter version as well. However, one of the young women fell so deeply in love with yoga that she actually
Jordan (45:23)
wants to become a yoga teacher. And so we solidified her getting a scholarship for an online 200 hour yoga teacher training program. And so that's also something as well, like please ask. Like I I I love to to share and I love to be a connector. and if if someone from our our teacher training programs or from our yoga camp or even our like retreat participants, like I'm I always say like please reach out because I'm more than happy to
Jordan (45:54)
to extend any kinds of you know connections that I have in order to to help facilitate them on on their yoga journeys.
Jenn (46:04)
That's amazing. I mean, to me, that is that's that's like planting the seed of education or practice, you know, and then someone can move in the direction that speaks to them. anything else that's like that's coming up that you're excited about or that you want to make that we didn't get to like sh to share about here that you'd love for our audience to know about?
Jordan (46:26)
I think I think doing nonprofit work, as you know, can often feel like you exist in a vacuum. But you know, we are a global community, so please reach out, please get in touch if you know this conversation has sparked any ideas. You know, I always say we always need volunteers and people to help, you know, I to help out. we have an upcoming retreat to Tulum. It's actually our first Mexico retreat, and that is a yoga and botanical dye retreat.
Jordan (46:56)
so my dear friend Erica is a natural textile dyer. And then so she actually came on our Morocco retreat and she did botanical dyeing with the girls there. And it was so cool. They collected avocado pits and then they, you know, dyed these tote bags, and it makes the most like beautiful like pink color. And they also did onion skin as well, which made it
Jordan (47:19)
Magenta, but we're supporting a really cool organization called Ladle. their community space and Tulum and specifically the funds that we raise will be going to girls between 12 and 18 and we'll be doing a yoga and art class with them as well. And so yeah, I also think it's about you know creative expression and you know for me it's it's yoga. For someone else, it might be cooking or it might be art or it might
Jenn (47:42)
Mm.
Jordan (47:43)
be music. And so I think we have all of these different kinds of entry points into
Jordan (47:49)
to find ourselves or or to maybe maybe we found ourselves, but to reconnect with ourselves. And I think it's really about being open to to what's possible.
Jenn (48:00)
I love it. That sounds like so exciting. and and what a a powerful way too for someone, anyone on the retreat to learn more about the community that they're on the retreat and and and to be a part of that. so we'll link to your website research, things like this, so folks can learn more there. But I just want to really honor and appreciate the way that you do the work in the world.
Jenn (48:27)
I've learned a lot today and I'm curious to continue to learn from you and and really admire the work that you do. So thank you for being here.
Jordan (48:35)
Thank you so much for having me.
Jordan (48:37)
So it's truly like a wonderful conversation because I think as well when talking about a lot of these subjects, I'm always mindful that it doesn't go for me that it doesn't get like sensational, be it talking about the cohorts of young women or even my own, you know, journey as well. And I know you and I chatted about that as well. And so really coming from a grounded and honest place, like I very much respect that. And I have the deepest admiration for you and all of the work that you do. And I know that this is just the beginning.
