Jenn Turner 0:00
Hi everyone. I wanted to share a quick reminder about an opportunity for healing professionals who want to deepen their work with somatic trauma informed practices. The trauma center trauma sensitive yoga certification program is our 300 hour online training that supports practitioners around the world in offering safe, embodied healing experiences grounded in decades of research and practice. Our next cohort starts in September, and applications are open until August 15, and if you still need to complete the required 20 hour foundational training, you can join one anytime. Our facilitators offer them online and in person all year long, to learn more, start your journey with us at Trauma sensitive yoga.com I hope you enjoy today's episode. You Jenn, welcome to on trauma and power. I'm your host. Jenn Turner, co founder of the Center for trauma and embodiment. I'm so glad you're here with us. Each episode, I sit down with different experts, educators, authors, survivors and practitioners, sharing different trauma informed experiences across various fields, join us as we explore the complex intersections of trauma and power through embodied healing and diverse perspectives in both our Personal and collective healing journeys. Let's dive on in.
Welcome, Ayanna. I am so excited to have this conversation with you, and I imagine even though we talk about heavy things that will be joyful, as it was when we spoke before. There's something that I really appreciate about you bringing that. So I'm gonna introduce you a little bit for folks, and then invite you to take the mic and lead us through kind of some kind of centering, grounding. But to start with, yeah, Ayana freedom is an ally CSW and a registered 500 hour yoga teacher supporting individuals, groups and organizations to amplify their authenticity and empower change. With years of research in restorative yoga and multiple trauma sensitive yoga programs, Ayana has developed a mindful movement based holistic approach to wellness that releases complex trauma out of the body. Ayanna is the founder of love and revolution, an action based anti racist group, and the founder of be free wellness, a nonprofit that helps marginalized communities access therapy and holistic services. She is currently a full time clinician supervisor, somatic healer, Reiki practitioner and yoga teacher at alvitas in Barnstable mass. Ayanna has two books, becoming free and unfuck your stuck the 12 agreements to full body freedom describe her recovery journey and help others to identify and release stress by using the 12 body agreements she developed. She also co hosts the podcast unfuck your stuck with her daughter and co host, blessing plus thanks for being here. I'm excited for this conversation.
Unknown Speaker 3:26
Well, you read that well, well done. Thanks.
Jenn Turner 3:31
You want to take it? That'd be great. And folks can just who are listening. You can always get past the ground if you want to get to the conversation, but if you want to listen into that, you're welcome to as well. So feel free.
Speaker 1 3:42
Yeah, so actually, I do this before I do anything else, usually, so if I am seeing clients or if I'm doing a podcast, or if I'm speaking or if I'm just exchanging energy with everyone or anyone, we have to ground our bodies. Otherwise it's just noise in the ear, and we don't want that, right? We get that all day long. So just going to invite people to, if they're comfortable, close their eyes, if not just find like a gaze on the floor, so that the stimulus from the eyes can be removed. So that's why we ask people to close their eyes. But I also want to honor people that have PTSD that when they close their eyes, their body gets really activated. So the way that we work with that is just finding, like a soft gaze and just maybe a point on the floor or a chair or anything that would just bring the eyes down so it's not taking in any stimulation. And then as we do that, we're going to drop the shoulders, drop the jaw, and then allow breath into the body in whatever way it's naturally breathing. And then the invitation here is to become aware of how the breath is. Being with the body today. So just become the observer. Don't start to judge it. Every time we do that, we're like, oh my god, I'm not even breathing right. What else am I good at? Let that go. Just observe how the breath is moving through the body, and as the breath kind of swirls the body, see where you might be holding any kind of tension in the moment. See if you can bring the breath there and allow the invitation to just soften that part of the body. And see if you can continue to allow the shoulders to drop as we lengthen the spine and become aware of the crown of the head, and now softly and gently invite more breath into the body, so no forcing, just allowing maybe into the nose, out through the mouth,
Unknown Speaker 5:52
or filling up the belly or the chest, and then letting the exhale be longer than the inhale and
Speaker 1 6:04
and then just allowing the space of breath and being without expectation, but just love and put worry and to do's on the shelf for right now, we're just having a conversation With the universe and each other and energy and love. And now if you want take a couple really deep breaths in together, like into the nose, out of the mouth, like kind of let it all go, and you can maybe make some movements with the body, shoulders, roll the head, and then open your eyes, and then we can start chatting. Thank you. You're welcome. Just love, just love. Seem pretty good. Just just love, love,
Jenn Turner 6:59
okay, well, if you're up for it, I'd love to, you know, hear and share with everyone a bit about how you first got interested and engaged in somatic healing work for yourself, and then, yeah, however you want to take that?
Speaker 1 7:12
Sure. So for me, it was about eight or 10 years ago. I was my body was pretty addicted to alcohol and not so tender ways of taking care of myself, and that just came from history of trauma. And so when I figured out that that was sort of what was happening to me, I tried all the things like an A or NA and all the ways in which they tell you to treat, you know, addiction, and none of those are working for me. They just weren't resonating. Because what was very clear to me early on was that all that stuff lives in the heart and the body, not just in my brain and not just in my thoughts. And so I, once I figured that out, it made like a whole new world of difference for me. I was like, Oh my God. I found my breath, I found my body, and then I just kind of like figured out how to move it in a way that wasn't horrible, awful, but brought joy, and then breath. And it was a game changer. And I went to rehab twice, and I tell people this only because, you know, it's nothing to be ashamed of. I'm actually proud of it, like people like, every time I work with someone who's in recovery or addiction from anything, right? It can be, it's not just have to be alcohol. Like, the world's addicted to their phones, let's be clear. Like everything right now, right? We're even addicted to, like, watching the world be harmed, and we can't, like, not watch it anyway. That's we'll get into that later. But rehab was like a reset, was like a break. And at the time, I was a mom, and like, being a mom is, you know, or a parent in the world is actually extremely hard, and something else we don't talk about a lot, but I, you know, I got fed. I got fed really good food. All I had to do was wake up and go to these groups. The hardest part was talking about my feelings, but that's what needed to be done. And so once I was like, oh, that's the work that needs to be done here. In conjunction with my body, it wasn't as scary or painful, Yep, yeah. So removing the alcohol or the addiction was, like, almost that part was not the easy part. I won't say it's not easy. Like, for people that are like, you know, it's, it is really hard. But once you get that part of the way, it's the evolution of the growth of the mind and body and how we connect, that that really can shift how we live our lives. And so that can be for anyone. Like, I always talk about people like, as a therapist, like, yeah, you're struggling from being in survival mode of hustle culture. Like, that's your body's exhausted. It almost feels the same as addiction. It's almost the exact same. So if we look at it like that way that all humans are really struggling with things in their body, and it's traumatic. Uh, like living in America right now, it's like, it's traumatic for the body, it's traumatic for the nervous system. So if we're going to heal folks, we can't just do this, like sit across and you talk, and not integrate other these modalities into into healing. And so that's sort of how it sort of came to to be for me.
Jenn Turner 10:19
Was that, did it feel radical at the time? Or was there, like a, I don't know, an edge there, where people are focusing, maybe in recovery, on the 12 Steps, or on certain things that are more about cognition and thoughts and beliefs. And you're like, but what about this other thing? Like, was it hard to find that? How did you resource that
Speaker 1 10:40
yourself? Yeah, like 10 years ago, like, wasn't a thing. Somatic killing now is like the biggest buzzword, right? It's like, oh, it's like, you know the trauma world, blah, blah, blah, you know the body. It's like, the big thing back then, like, 10 years ago, it was not and so it was like, I couldn't find where that lived in the world, like, I couldn't find a center where you could just go and all those modalities are off were offered. And that's sort of why I started the nonprofit, because it was or, and my business be free wellness, because it was just there wasn't a space that had that could move your body and do therapy, like, even in the same building, like it just was, like unheard of, like you don't even Never mind, like a doctor, like it's all healing. It's just like, I'm not sure why in America, this is so separate from like, you have to drive a million places just to get for this one body. You should just go next door, you know. And if you talk about, like, community, like, we gotta create these spaces in which all of these things are happening in one space, so that healing and energy can just be interchanged. And, you know, like, and give a hug in between, like, that is also somatic healing. Like, it's just like those kinds of things, that kind of stuff's been around for, for years. And so the work really has to, has to go there. And so now it's not as radical what, what I think people are struggling with still, though, is sort of like the medical model versus like the holistic model. So we have like these trauma centers that belief in embodiment, but there's still this medical world out there that is trying to treat the same thing, and they're looking in very different directions for the same thing. So that world really still needs to get integrated quite a bit more, and we got to really start to think outside the box. But particularly, I'd say, for bipoc bodies and bodies that are oppressed, because that's, I think, where we're finding a lot of the rub, and a lot of the nautical model is very, very stuck in sort of the systematic white supremacy or racist ways of being, not that trauma centers aren't, or ways of treating people aren't. Yes, they're. They lived everywhere, yes, but it's a little bit more able to be seen, I guess, in trauma centers and trauma or talked about, maybe in certain places, maybe not. I don't know. I
Jenn Turner 13:01
mean, it's kind of wild when I think about my background. You know, a place like the trauma center, we weren't talking about systemic trauma until like, eight maybe 10 years ago, was like starting to be like, Oh, yeah. It's not just what happens in these relationships. It's this, right, you know, what about this context and community and these beliefs that we've been indoctrinated in. And it's one thing to start talking about. It's another thing to try to do things differently,
Speaker 1 13:29
right? Like systems just can't they have, like, the craziest ways of understanding change. I've never understood that it's it's so entranced, like, in it, well, I guess I do understand it like it all has to do with fear, right? It's all based in fear and power and money, right? So systems really refuse to change in relationship to all those things. And so I think that's why it makes it so hard. And also, every system is built on, you know, the backs of people of color and the wealth gap and women not getting paid more. And, you know, it's like, how is the world going to survive if you actually radically change those things, like, what does it look like? Who's actually getting paid? Right? All those questions start to come up. But I think just in the therapy world, it's really difficult. So right now, which I was just looking at my caseload the other day, have about 70% folks of color, which is amazing. And the healing and growth that happens very quickly in those spaces, and a lot of it is because we just cut out the bullshit of like, we don't have to talk about fucking white shit, like, like, in other words, people can really share about racial trauma without having to worry about the therapist being harmed or scared, or how is this person going to react? Or are they going to then harm me in some way? So that dynamic is then removed, right? But then So those conversations are so, so different, and I'm finding that that's the work. That's the work right now is like we really. Got to dive into those. Those folks are not just harmed by trauma, if they're coming to me for trauma, but they've been harmed by white supremacy way before that, and so some of their issues have nothing to do with them internally. It has to do with how do we heal in your body the external trauma you've had your whole life because of racism or because of white supremacy or because of being othered right? It's not just I don't want to do black and white or race necessarily. It could be other folks that are just othered right, that aren't in the norm of the paradigm of dominant culture. Any of those other bodies really have had a lifetime of harm, and then the heart in particular like that, to have that type of I went to, sorry, I'm just like, going off on a tent go, you're it's beautiful. I was like, Wait, okay, so I went to college this weekend, and it was so it was so fun. It was like Lamar rod Owens and Reggie Hubbard, and they're both just beautiful black men that do beautiful work in the world around like, you know, freedom and liberation and sound and all the things that you would hope for. And it was just like that kind of energy is sort of just where we need to be. And now I totally lost my thought so,
Jenn Turner 16:18
no, it's great. I was gonna say it for some reason.
Speaker 1 16:22
And I can't remember why. Yeah, but anyway, there follow those two individuals. They're incredible. The MA has a new book out called the new saints. And like, wow. It's just he's talking about a high level way of being that's, like, incredible,
Jenn Turner 16:41
amazing. Yeah, I love his writing so much. Yeah, and we just missed each other. I was there. I left on Friday, so yeah, we just missed each other, yeah, I was there doing a trauma sensitive yoga workshop with Dave,
Unknown Speaker 16:58
yeah, I feel like I saw that. Yeah,
Jenn Turner 17:00
yeah, no. To circle back, though, everything, there's so much in there, right? Like, how you show up as a provider, to then open the door for these conversations that can sometimes take years to dance around. You know, particularly because predominantly, right, who are the therapists, who are the providers, right? And it's like the avoidance that happens, the caretaking. Also, in my experience, that sense of, I don't want the system to pathologize me, and so I don't even want to bring Do I sound paranoid? Do I sound, you know, like, what is it? And because the system has a history of pathologizing normative responses to racism, to other, to trauma, and me as a provider, I am, I am that system? Right? I represent that system in writing,
Speaker 1 17:53
right? I often ask, you know, white providers like, how is that? And you're talking about the harm of white supremacy and the clinical interaction, maybe even in the first session. Because if we're not having that conversation, and you know, a body of color sitting across from a white body in this really sacred exchange, and we can't ask that question, then we're already doing harm to that individual. So honestly, don't know how bipoc bodies are healing right now, because I don't. I just don't. There's not a lot of people of color doing at least in Massachusetts where I am, and particularly on Cape Cod, obviously, but like, there's just such a small number of us. And again, that has to do with money, right? Like, I'm in the ridiculous amounts of debt to Simmons College for getting my LIC SW, right? It's like the system is put in place so that we can't even get access to education or and a license, which is even crazier to me, that you have to have, like, all these hours of, like, supervised stuff, and then the test is, like, 300 $500 like, whatever it is. It's crazy, maybe not the high, but it's like, it's a whole thing. And so we're creating systems in which you people of color can't even become, you know, and then there's the wealth gap anyway. So how are you going to, like, feed your children and then go, like, anyway, it's a whole thing, and
Jenn Turner 19:23
working in an industry that is chronically underpaid anyway, because the system devalues, or doesn't value, the services the healing space, you know? Yeah,
Speaker 1 19:33
yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah. Could you, could you talk
Jenn Turner 19:37
share more about the kind of healing that you're talking about, particularly in the bipoc community, but in general, you know, when you're working with bodies that have been systemically And historically, intergenerationally othered, how you approach that work? And,
Speaker 1 19:52
yeah, it's such tender work. And I think. Idea is really to get them to understand that their internal struggle is not just because of them. And so really getting them to understand that there's you've had this lifetime of trauma, and on top of that, your body also integrates generation trauma. And so we have to understand like, how does that all end? How does that land in everyone's body? And it's different for everyone, right? And so we gotta sort of understand that piece and then also create the path of safety in community to freedom and liberation. So that looks like this, right? Like all healing does, like it's, you know, sort of up and down. Nothing is straightforward, but it's being able to identify those systems in which people are getting harmed constantly, right? Like, I have black women who talk about going to the hospital, and it's like we are all we are both in tears about the experiences, it's horrific, the racism that shows up. And so how does that land as identity in the world? How can we make sure that we're safe? And then the clear message is, no one can heal alone, right? Where none of us are, can heal in isolation. So finding other bodies that you feel comfortable. It doesn't have to be black and brown, but it can be finding other people that resonate with you and can feedback, like, that, wasn't you Right? Like, oftentimes I'll have an interaction at a job or work or placement employment, and I'm thinking, like, What the heck just happened? Like, what did I do wrong? I know a now that that's just my trauma brain, but also like, Nope, that's a systems response that has nothing to do with who I am or or my identity, or how I said that, or how I laugh loud, or, I mean, a lot of places have a hard time with me. I'm bit like my I'm big,
Unknown Speaker 22:01
taking up space. I'm not
Speaker 1 22:02
quiet, like about anything, whether it's injustice or joy, this is the same they get the same response every time. That doesn't always work in every environment. In some places, it does, but not every in particularly white environments, like they're all weirdo, particularly yoga, like people are so weird, I'm so loud, and yoga and, oh my god. Like, stop being so white. No pets. It's just so linear, like, I don't understand. Yeah, it's just very linear way of being. And I'm just like, No, we're not meant to move that way. We're not meant to be that way. Yeah. And I think it's hard for bipoc bodies to get out of survival mode. That's my biggest struggle. Is like, we gotta make time for ourselves, and that's really hard. I mean, just out of a survival I have to feed my children, and I'm not, I can't go to Reiki or yoga. What are you talking about? Like, that's crazy talk. I get it. But also,
Jenn Turner 22:58
how do you nudge at that? Because it right? It's like, yes, and there's, I mean, there is reality. But also, how do you poke at that kind of either beliefs that maybe these spaces aren't for certain people or certain bodies, or
Speaker 1 23:10
there's not, yeah, I mean, I think for people that are trying to heal, it's they, they're gonna show up. So it's just more so holding space for like, I hate the term, like, when they're ready, like, no one's really ready, but like when people are able to make the space. And I also talk about, like, when I was in recovery, I had no choice. I mean, I was looking at either death or, like, fine healing. So for me, it was like, in some way, I'm like, so thankful that I had that experience, because otherwise I would never have had the urgency to do to do this, to to be integrated in these ways and be able to share them with other people like I wouldn't. There wouldn't be a call for, like, such urgency in everything, like my whole being so I think in that way, until there's urgency, people are, they may not, and they're like, that's okay, and loving them anyway, right? And then just loving them into into that, and calling them in and meditation and life, and you know, however that is. And they'll get to me when they can, and they will you, I'd
Jenn Turner 24:18
love to hear more if you're up for sharing about your process of taking up space, I think that is such a powerful thing. I It's a beautiful quality I get to even sense being in this space with you. Yeah, was part of, sort of your relationship with your body and maybe agreements, or kind of like, what brought you into that space? Yeah,
Speaker 1 24:43
I mean, that ebbs and flows for me, because I feel like that's one of the hardest things. Dominant culture really gets it really digs itself in there. And I find this with, like, being a mid age. I don't know how old I am, but anyway, there's menopause happening, and my body's changing. And shifting. And so I'm finding that that is, like, one of the biggest things that's hard for me to, like, take up space with. There's nothing wrong with my body. I move my body. I eat, well, I'm pretty healthy, but, you know, like, it's bigger than it was, and it's, it's challenging to be like, okay with that I did. I'm much better now, but I had days where I was just like, This is painful. This is really painful. And I had to do a lot of work around that's dominant culture thinking, Ayana, like, knock it the fuck off. What are you doing? It's it didn't make any sense, right? It's just part of growing or being right. But somehow I was getting attached to that, like, you're only good if you're, like, white and skinny kind of thing inside to like, I was, like, had to remove that and continue to take up space, but it took work. And what's funny is, I always talk about this is, like, before I went to rehab, I was like, probably, like, I don't know, I was tiny. I was, like, under 100 pounds. And the and the amount of compliments I got is so great I looked and how, how great I was, how, like, I don't know even the words were just like, I'm thinking in my head. Do you even know that I, like, am suicidal every day, and I'm gonna have to go to rehab or and I'm gonna die in this body, like, this body sick and ill, so it's wild. So now I'm like,
Speaker 1 26:32
it's so true, that's just one example. But like, it is, it is interesting just being on cake like it's different. But when I'm in rooms with people of color and then rooms with white people, it is my lap. This is very you can people see people react in a bad way, but more of a surprise way. And then, you know, I it does. I think about that because I see it in their face, right? And then oftentimes, in workshops, people will come up and be like, Oh my God, you were the most joyful person in the room. I loved it, but in my head, they were staring at me like I was like an alien. And I'm like, Oh my God. Oh, I find people of color joyful, not that white people can't be. But it's different course,
Jenn Turner 27:19
of course, as it should be,
Unknown Speaker 27:22
right? Yeah,
Jenn Turner 27:25
there's so much there that I love and resonate with, right? But it's like it is so fucking powerful, how we can get rewarded and praise when we can be at our most like at our when we're suffering, or struggling, but if we fit into that narrow box, I resonate with that so much. And you know the appearance of being okay versus what is being okay, or what the appearance of being healthy versus what is health, actually embodied health feel like, and what it looks like is very different than all of these norms. And you mentioned also the whole like, you know, white, skinny yoga stuff, it's it's toxic, and it's everywhere. And I wonder, how do you chip away at that? How do you create spaces that are welcoming to bodies that do not look like that, which honestly is most bodies, but at yet, still, this paradigm persists.
Speaker 1 28:19
Yeah, the yoga whiteness is just like the bane of my existence, like it's so gross, but it's also so beautiful, right? It's how I healed. It's how I came to be who I am, like, off of the addiction, like when I was I was in the middle of yoga teacher training when I relapsed and had to go back to rehab, and so all I did was just be on my yoga mat and move my body and write and talk to myself and get the trauma out of my body. So that's how I learned how to do all that, and that's where the two books came from. So to me, yoga is like just this raw, gorgeous thing for all bodies in Western culture, it is for white, skinny, like when I teach it, what? Even if it's not on Cape Cod, I'm usually the only person of color, never mind in the studio, but teaching in the studio, and then I'm the largest body, and I'm not even that big, the average size, right? Which is wild to me, right? It's just like, Oh my God. And I'm the loudest, right? And then, but when I teach, I'm very like, directive and saw, I mean, you heard me. So, like, when I did that meditation, that's how I teach yoga, that's it's all the same. But I will giggle and laugh in there. And people are like, open their eyes, like they're afraid to like, should I look? Should I laugh? Like, it's like, oh my god, get out of this culture of like, yoga is not joyful for all bodies. Can we just not have that be that right? And so we have to be ourselves if we're going to invite others to connect in that way. And so I think a lot of what I've been doing lately is designing. Sort of a piece of yoga teacher training for the teachers, so that when they're doing their teacher trainings in their studios, we can actually have a whole session around like racial trauma, addicted bodies. What does it feel like to be like indigenous in this world? What does it feel like right now to be an immigrant, and if these folks ever enter your studio, you know? And let's be clear, the reason they're not is money, point blank, also culture, right? It's just not, but it yoga came from black and brown bodies. That's why I'm like, What do you mean culture? Like, when I ask people, like, why aren't we going it's culture. It's like, no, it's just the in western world, we've taken it over to this Lululemon slash skinny white people thing. It never was India and all these other cultures in which people sat in the earth, they didn't have people sat in the earth and meditated for hours, and then somehow some movement came in and which became a sauna. But Asana came from Western world, mainly, right there's, there are other lineages and ways in which, you know the limbs and all that kind of the the history of yoga. Want to go into all of it now, but like, it did come from just being still in the body. So I don't know where all this, like power yoga and all this like crazy business came from which most bodies can't do. That's right, that's right. And it's not a synonym yelling. It's not about like, just up and down vinyasa. I don't even like what is like. I understand it, and I am actually trained in it, because the at the time, that's what my body needed. Needed to move fast, I need to sweat, need to get all that, all that friggin addiction stuff from my body, but I wouldn't have survived had I not had the other pieces of it. And so the other pieces are, what are, what connect us. And I think we have to create spaces in which there's healing for bodies of color in the same room and then White bodies in the same room, and we got to talk about racism, and then we have to have integration, but we have to have teachers that are comfortable, yes, being able to understand the harm of all these things. I don't know where it came from that you can just go through a 200 hour yoga teacher training not have this extensive conversation about being othered and separate bodies and not know how to integrate them, because otherwise you're just holding space for white bodies. And what the fuck is
Jenn Turner 32:31
that an able bodied and physically exactly right? Yep,
Speaker 1 32:39
language and yoga studios, like, Can we just not assume people are he, she? And then they're like, oh, but they told me yesterday that they were and I'm like, That's fluent, yes, and sorry, but you for not thinking that's fluid the next day. Just ask. It's okay. People are allowed to be who they are within the hour, mind you, because that's what yoga does, right? If we're doing it, there's not right or wrong, right? I hate that linen. But, like, also, if we're doing yoga really, and holding space for all bodies, we have to allow for shift and change and presence of everyone and the fluidity of everyone, like, trans bodies, yes. Like, yes, it's gotta be. How do you not? And, I mean, that's a beautiful example of how to hold space for all types of things in one but you can't, or like, larger bodies and language and yoga around larger body, because, like, if one other white woman tells me to take some lift my tummy, off my thigh, it's not gonna right now, it's
Speaker 2 33:41
not gonna happen, yep, and I kind of like it. So stop saying that cue.
Jenn Turner 33:50
It's pretty fucking cozy, right?
Speaker 1 33:53
So I do all the limitations around my menopause belly, because I have to love it, right? Because it just is. So now I'm like, Okay, I have all names, and it's my friend is like, Come on, don't I'm not removing it.
Jenn Turner 34:06
You know what? You strike me too, when you talk about the fluidity, it's like this idea too, that that that we're not fixed and within us is a multiplicity or a whole universe. And Right, right? If we're in a process of self discovery and exploration, we have to create space for that, right,
Speaker 1 34:22
exactly, right, and if we're not. But what's striking to me is that particularly white women that teach yoga haven't had that conversation with themselves. And a lot of times there's harm there within themselves that they're not looking at conscious or unconscious, and that gets transferred so loudly to a room of yoga folks trying to be sacred in their bodies, it's almost more harmful in many ways,
Jenn Turner 34:54
and we don't look at that enough. What is our relationship to our body is going we are going to extend that same. Of thing to the communities we work with. And if we are critical and harsh, we push ourselves to our edge, do the advanced thing of the form, like, what, what is, what are we communicating then to other bodies that are in the room and and what are we communicating about why we're even there?
Unknown Speaker 35:16
Exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yoga because
Jenn Turner 35:19
of punishment, right? So,
Speaker 1 35:20
yeah, sometimes people will walk out and be like, Oh my god, that was so easy. And then some people will walk out in tears being like, that was the most incredible class I've ever taken. We didn't even move that much. So it's just their access, of being able to figure out what's actually going on and what people can allow in. Yeah. Yeah.
Jenn Turner 35:43
Yeah. Can you share a little bit about the 12 agreements that it sounds incredible, and then I know the second book is about, right? Yeah,
Speaker 1 35:52
yeah. So the I was trying to create a framework of, like, how to communicate to people, because the first book was really just about my recovery story and how it happened. And it ends, like, right, when I opened, be free, so, but then everyone was like, Yeah, but how did you get there? Like, I don't, I don't get it. Can you break it down? Like, Oh, okay. How do I do this in like, a framework that's, like, structured, I'm not very structured. So I was like, Okay, I was thinking about it. I was like, Oh, I mean, I think the 12 Steps in general, like, for AA and NA are, like, are great, like, they're, like, a good thing to adopt for anything, right? They're, they're great, but they're missing the the pieces. I mean, there's one, one thing about meditation and whatever. So I was like, oh, like, how did I really get to this place of healing? And for me, it was making agreements with my body about how I'm going to operate, how I'm going to honor myself in the world. And that's where they that's where that came in. So I just, like, picked 12 and walked people through what mine were. So I have like, 12 body agreements in which, like, I have a little sign in my bedroom that, like, I pick one every day. It doesn't have to be like, one through 12. I just pick one that I just am like, okay, that's what I'm gonna sort of honor today. And it just walks through and there's like, a template in the back of the book in which it describes how you can create your own, or people can just use mine. I mean, they're pretty simple. Like, number one, it's like, listen to your body, right? But that it sounds so simple. Oh my god. None of us do that. None of us do that. And my favorite one is about, like, rushing. Like, I will commit to not rushing. So if we think about, like, every time I do a workshop on the book, and I have people raise their hand and like, you know, how many times a day do you think you rushed? And everyone's like, Oh my God. Like, if I it's like, a million right? A million times. And I have to explain that, like, the body doesn't know the difference between, like, if you're about to get hit by a car, and rushing, like the PTSD is the same like the act, the activation of the trauma response is exactly the same. So if you're in harm's way and you're rushing the body's like, I'm in harm because that's why I'm rushing. So you like shortness of breath, you're dropping stuff, you're tripping stuff, you're you can't catch you're not fluid in your body. And so that's the first signal that, like, you're in harm. And so the body goes into survival mode, and then there you are. All you're doing is accessing that level of like, movement throughout the day, damage. That's like, so damaging.
Jenn Turner 38:39
It's, I mean, I could cry for that. I mean, that is, that is so true. And it's like it's read trauma, especially if we've had those experiences that are these profound traumatic experiences. In addition to being in that ecosystem of trauma, it's absolutely and, and how do we get rewarded when we don't listen to our body also, right? And that, I think, to me, is such a powerful paradigm. It's like it's an act of resistance to listen to. Oh
Speaker 1 39:05
my god, like, like all the wonderful breast healers right now, they're doing all this work, like Tracy Stanley and Octavia Raheem and the rest of the resistance book with Trisha. It's like people don't understand that that's really the resistance. Like, that's the work and the liberation of all bodies, but particularly bipoc bodies. Like, that's how we can resist. But people are pushing up against, like, but I need to feed my kids like, it's real. I get it. Like, what do you mean? Take a nap, right? But, I mean, I have to describe to people like, yeah, that's like, but if I don't take the nap, I'm screaming at my kid, and the in the exchange of that energy is extremely harmful to both bodies, yeah? Like, I it's happened with my kid often, right? It just is the paradigm. Parenting, it's just developmental you'd be glad. It's hard. That's part of growing together, but I but I really gotta, like, my adrenaline is so out of control when I do that that I gotta sit down with my kid and literally, we do nothing for an hour, whatever it is or something that's like a puzzle or coloring, because I just can't I gotta bring my nervous system down, but I gotta do with her, but I gotta do it. And then the exchange of, like, hey, this happened. You can say sorry, but sorry, like, the stupidest word to me, if I can hate it, but let it go, like, but exchange the energy differently. Yeah, that's, that's the honoring of making, not making up for, but feeling, feeling that thing that you harmed.
Jenn Turner 40:47
I think about too though, then that also, if you're going to stop and be with your kid, you're going to stop and and rest. It's like extracting yourself from the river and sitting on the side and being willing to let things pass you buy, and this sense of urgency or get things done, or grind culture, and that's really so challenging too, because that's that's real. It's everywhere. It's
Speaker 1 41:12
everywhere. But stress kills it, like legitimately kills people, and it kills bipoc bodies at a faster rate. Yes, and it's i, so that's sort of like when I'm telling people like this, isn't it's not just taking a nap, it's saving and surviving our whole culture. Like we can feel the energy when other bipoc bodies are resting. When I'm teaching bipoc bodies, the ancestors are coming in and hanging out, and then they're sharing that energy with other bipoc bodies. It's like the most incredible healing power that there is without people doing much but me being with them, with in breath, love and pillows, right? Like the ripple effect is profound. Yeah, so good.
Jenn Turner 42:05
I am just really moved and honored that you are here with me and having this conversation also with my white body, and letting me into right how you know the work that you do and the community you have built, is there anything you're looking forward to in terms of, like, next project, next, I don't know thing that's on the horizon, another book,
Speaker 1 42:30
yeah, so the third book is being written. I just finished the proposal ish, the other day, so I'm excited about that. And there's a lot of folks doing sort of liberation work, which I think is so amazing and incredible. And I think just in my work of working with all bodies in yoga and somatic healing and the power of integration with that is sort of what I've sort of coined, the phrase of the embodiment of love, right, that we can embody that with with each other, even folks that hold that paradigm of white supremacy, right? People think. People think I'm talking That's right, but it's the work that has to be done, and it's the work that I'm particularly feeling called to do, even though I know everyone isn't and that's absolutely okay, because that we all have these gifts in which we are shifting and changing the world, particularly right now, when it's being called for, like real radical response of leaders and teachers and so but we got to take care of ourselves. But the way that I can do that is sort of help people to understand within somatic world, but within yoga, within those spaces, how to sort of navigate that in their nervous system, whether they're white bodied or or bipoc bodied or just marginalized communities, LGBTQIA, plus all, all of those bodies are I am able to do that in the space with everyone, and I'm not going to claim to keep people safe, because nobody you know I'm not that powerful as much as I want to be, but I can't create an attainer in which it's held with sacredness.
Jenn Turner 44:17
Well, I am hoping to do a pilgrimage to come take a class with you sometime in the near future. Yeah, thank you so much for spending time with me and with our listeners. We will link to your work and some of the other folks you named, like the you know, the work out of nap ministry and rest of resistance, and La Mirada Owens will link all of that so folks can check it out and see other bipoc voices that are out there doing this really beautiful, deep work.
Unknown Speaker 44:46
Yeah, that would be great. Yeah.
Jenn Turner 44:48
Thank you so much. Thank you. I appreciate it. Appreciate you. You.
John, thank you so much for being with us today to find out more about today's guest. Head to heal with cfte.org/podcast follow us on Instagram at on trauma and power, to stay up to date on future episodes and be sure to like and subscribe to on trauma and power. Wherever you listen to your podcast, we'll see you next time. Take care you
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